Welcome to Episode #68 of The Planner Podcast.
I can’t wait to share this jam-packed episode with Kate Toon, author of “Six Figures in School Hours”. Kate gets raw and real about “balancing” work, family and personal life, how she plans her week and creates a routine that includes white space and so much more.
Enjoy the episode! Please leave a lovely review and subscribe :)
Subscribe to The Planner Podcast
- Subscribe to Blog
- Subscribe on iTunes
- Subscribe on Google
- Subscribe on Stitcher
- Subscribe on Spotify
Transcript[00:00:00] Hi, this is Mim Jenkinson and you’re listening to The Planner Podcast. Hi, lovely. Welcome back. I’m so excited to share this interview with my friend Kate Hoon with you. We’ve only been friends for such a short time, but you’ll see from this chat that we just bonded really well and you are going to learn so much from Kate. I met Kate a year ago at a Mums in Business conference.
Now, since then, Kate has released a book called Six Figures in School Hours, or Six fish for sure. How clever is that? And Kate has just been someone that I followed for quite a while. She’s an online business coach and digital products pro, and you’re going to learn so much from this. Let me tell you a little bit more about Kate.
Kate is an award winning entrepreneur and a parent to one human and one fur baby. She lives. Quite near me, only an hour away. She’s in the central coast in new South Wales. And Kate has won many, many awards. She’s a renowned speaker, mentor, educator, and podcaster. And she is the founder of copy con and the digital marketing collective [00:01:00] conference and a resident expert on Kashi’s business builders.
I can’t wait for you to get to know Kate today. We’re going to go into so much in terms of how she has planned her business, how she has helped so many others, her routines. We talk a lot about how we use planning, how we have made and failed with to do lists, her opinion on whether having balance is possible, and just so much more.
So this is quite a laid back podcast, but at the same time, you’re going to find so many success tips in here for you that I know You’ll be able to take into actionable steps to implement in your life or family or business now too. So whether you’re a parent or not, I think you’re going to really enjoy this episode and I can’t wait for you to dig into it right now.
So Kate is, Kate and I are both Northern, except we’re just having a discussion of who is the most Northern and Kate thinks it’s me. And I also think it’s me because you’re a little bit more posh. Whereabouts are you from? I think there’s a gradient. I think like there’s a scale, right? There’s an index. I.
I was born in Manchester, but I left when I was seven and then I lived [00:02:00] on near Henley. So I think that eradicated my northerness, but my mum and dad, however, are Geordies. So that, yeah, they’re from like Newcastle. So I feel that ups my northerness. What is your northern creds? Come on. Well, okay. So you’re, we’re both kind of, traveling northerners.
So I actually was not born in the North. I was born in the West Midlands. No, no, I left there when I was seven, so I spent most of my Childhood and then my young adult life in the north, so I lived in near Manchester. Like North Ahi? Yeah, majority. And then I lived in Leeds for about, oh, how long was I in Leeds for?
I was in Leeds. This was our crossover. ’cause I went to university in Leeds, so that UPS my northernness as well. When did you come to Australia?
- So I was in Leeds for five years and then I went to, and then I came to Australia. I did like, I’m going to travel around the world and… Yes, I came in, I came in 1999.
So I don’t know, I’m going to say that [00:03:00] you’re a seven and I’m a six. I think, I think we’re downplaying it. I think I would say I’m an eight. Really? Yeah, I don’t know. I think on the scale of northern, northerners, we do pretty well.
Yeah, do you, do you rub Yorkshire puddings on yourself at least once a week? No, but I do enjoy to eat them. I do love a Yorkshire pudding. You can’t really
get them over here. You can only get them both at once. Anyway. I can talk about the North all day, but we are, like, prepare yourselves because we are going to become more Northern, I think, as this chat goes on, and maybe we need, like, a glossary of terms.
You’ll need a transcript, won’t you? You’ll have to get it transcribed. I once had a guest on and they were really Scottish, and Rev, came back to me and said we can’t transcribe this because they just couldn’t understand it, so there you go. They didn’t even try, did they? No, I don’t think so.
How rude! That’s so rude. It’s so funny. The funny thing is though, do you get this? So, I say this to people all the time. Back home, I would be considered like… [00:04:00] I say rough, but I’m joking with that. Just like, northern, you know, and then over here and to my US friends, they’re like, Oh, we love your accent. I’m like, Oh, that’s so nice.
Cause at home, it would probably be looked down upon by some. You’d be a bit common at home, wouldn’t you? I’d be a bit common. I didn’t want to say it. I’m glad you did. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, my, I’m, I’m lower middle class. back in England. The class system means something over there. Yeah,
I’m somewhere in the middle. Not at the top.
All Americans, I think, think that British people sound posh. And obviously I put on my poshness when I go to America. So I’m like, oh, hello, I’m scone. I say scone instead of scone when I go to America. Do you? No, of course I don’t. I was gonna say, do you say project or project? I don’t say that word, I don’t think.
I say bath. Not Bath.
Yeah. Oh, I love this. Anyway, we are going to get more Northern, so prepare yourselves. And yes, if we need to do a transcript, I definitely will add one. But this is Kate! So [00:05:00] we met, I’d heard about you, because Kate is an urban legend. Everyone will already know who you are. But we first met nearly a year ago, almost, well, to this month, a year ago.
At the International Entrepreneur Conference. Well, I went, which was unusual for me because I’ve not been to that event before and you’re my highlight. You were the best thing. I always go to a conference thinking I want to come away with one good thing and you were my good thing. I didn’t come away with you.
You didn’t come home with me, unfortunately. I’m so sorry that you didn’t enjoy it. No, I did enjoy it. I did enjoy it, but I loved it. I thought it was great, especially the networking stuff. I loved it, but I think I was just a bit conferenced out. I find conferences… I’m quite introverted in reality and there was, it’s a big conference.
There’s a lot of people and, yeah, so I thought it was great and I’m still tempted to go this year again, but it’s just, it’s a lot, isn’t it? Going to these big events. It’s exhausting. It is,
it is a lot. And I don’t know whether you go to many throughout the year. I mean, you’ll definitely go to more events than [00:06:00] me.
I, I just. don’t, like, I, I really am, don’t leave the house very often, honestly.
Well, I, I try not to, but with the book launch, because we are going to talk about the book, I’ve done all these book launches and I’ve probably met 300 people in the last couple of months. That’s a lot, do you know what I mean?
And I am somebody that likes to be at home in my, in my knickers, in my shed doing my work, you know. I don’t really like putting a bra on and leaving the house, so, yeah. You know, you have to balance it out, don’t you? Yeah. You do. I’m not an introvert, but I definitely relate to when introverts talk about how after the people, they then need time to like Yes.
In process. Like I definitely relate to that a lot. Yeah. I’m an ambi.
Yeah. I think I’m an ambi. I do do have a giggle with people. I do love the energy of people. Yeah. But I do need to recover, you know? Yes. I’m the same. So the last time that I really left the house to go too far was to your book launch. It was the second time we met in person and I’ve been really, I’ve been really enjoying it.
So I’m up to chapter, it’s either [00:07:00] seven or eight, where you talk, which is my jam, where you’re talking about planning, routines, and I thought that’s where we could start today. Okay, great. Because I, I have a really set. planning routine that I’ve been doing for years, but it didn’t start that way. Like it definitely was something that I had to do some testing and trial to see what worked and it kind of incorporates all of the different things like business, family, personal.
And I know in the book as well, you talk a lot about time blocking, like here I am in mum mode, here I am in business mode and so on. So can you tell me, can you tell us in a nutshell, like how you came up with that routine? Because I’ve been really enjoying comparing what you do to what I do. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think as soon as my son was born, I was very routine focused.
You know, it sounds like he will sleep from 9 till 9 17. It was ridiculous, really. And I think partially it was because I just felt so out of control. I wanted to have some semblance of control. It was hard to stick to it, but it made me feel less [00:08:00] frantic. So it definitely was born out of a feeling of, you know, just feeling sleep deprived and wild most of the time.
But I was a project manager in my previous life. I was a producer in agency world and a producer is pretty much this person that coordinates the people and plans the project and makes sure he hits timelines. So I’ve always had that discipline. In me, you know, and I think I’m a very much a to do list person, but I think the problem with to do lists is often they are wildly ambitious and people don’t put time against the things on their to do list.
So they have 0. 1 could take seven hours. 0. 2 could take three minutes, but there’s no notion of that. So I find that time blocking is a way of me really going, okay, I reckon this task is going to take 25 minutes or an hour. Then I put it in my calendar and it’s funny because everyone I’ve spoken to for the book and on the podcast, everyone who’s got a bit of semblance of success does time blocking.
It’s a thing. It’s a real thing that good business [00:09:00] owners do. So yeah, it works really well for
Yeah, I relate a lot to what you’re saying about the to do list because I’m a to do list queen, like, I love a list too, but it can get out of control and also with no, like you say, with no semblance of organization to it or putting a time, like, I can’t even tell you the amount of things that I used to have on my to do list every day and get to the end of the day and feel really crap about myself because I hadn’t achieved everything, or Do you still do this?
I do like to add things to a sparse to do list sometimes just to check it off though. Like that makes me feel really good.
Well, I’m a, I’m a quick win person. So in my, I use Slack to do my to do list. And the first sort of three or four things are really quick wins. Like post this on Instagram, add this to LinkedIn.
They’re two minute tasks, but then already my to do list starts to look quite chunky. But that for me is the biggest problem, especially for… You know, parents who are business owners is that every day we set ourselves up for failure. We do a 12 point to do list, we were never going to do that anyway, but we get to the end of the day, we haven’t [00:10:00] ticked it off and then we start to question our ability, our, you know, Oh, I’m just really disorganized, what’s wrong with me?
And it’s because we were, we were setting ourselves up for failure from the start. There was somebody at the book launch in Brisbane, I’ve mentioned her a few times now, poor woman, and she put her hands up and she said, you know, I’ve got, I think she had three kids under five, which of course is horrendous.
And she said, you know, and I’m trying to do my business and I make my lists, but I never seem to get it all done. Like it just feels like there’s too much to do. And I went, well, you know what the secret is here. There’s too much to do. That’s literally it. It’s impossible. You’re never going to win. Yeah.
Well done. You’ve worked it out. But if you at least acknowledge that and realise that you can do it all but probably not this week. Yeah. To do list that you’ve created is probably a three day to do list, if you’re honest. It’s not a one day to do list. Then that’s the key, I think. Because then you finish each day with a sense of completion.
You get that dopamine hit. The next day, rather than [00:11:00] ending the day feeling crap about yourself. Which sucks. And it’s the same, like you say, when you go from one time blocked. So I don’t know whether you went through this, but I was trying to, you mentioned in the book about trying to fit a two hour task into a two hour time slot without any kind of buffer for anything going wrong, or which it always does, especially when you’re a parent, I feel, and you’ve got so many competing things coming up.
So I would get my to do list, you know, for that section. Incomplete and just leave that section feeling bad without that dopamine hit. And then going into my next time block of, you know, the kids have come home. So now I’m in mom mode or parent mode and basically feeling crap and frantic from that, and then going into the next one, feeling the same, and it isn’t good energy to start that next section, especially when you want to feel refreshed and excited about the next thing you’re moving into.
Exactly. I mean, I think I spent about six years just never going to the toilet. I talk about wee a lot in the book, but you know, I have the, I have a bladder of steel because I just never allowed any time to eat, [00:12:00] go to the toilet, consume fluids. Like there was, I don’t think a drop of water entered my system for about six years.
And I think that’s the other thing, like I try and create. Quick keep Fridays as empty space. I can work on a Friday, but I can choose not to. So if something messes up on Tuesdays, all right, I’ve got my Friday. So I’m planning on a four day week, planning four days of effort over five days. That really, really helps.
But as you get further into the book, I talk about a notion called the third space, which is not my eyes here. It’s that there’s a book called the third space and it’s about. My big thing for the book is trying to be on or off, you’re either parenting or in business, but we really need a third state, which is, which is the third space, which is the transition between the two.
And we, you know, you’re like, you sort of see sometimes, you know, people coming back from work and they sit in the car for 10 minutes before they come in the house. And it’s important to do that. I do think so. Yeah, you need to mentally prepare. And especially if you’re working at home, you’ve lost the commute.
The commute serves a purpose. It allows you to [00:13:00] wind down from work and get into parent mode or wind from parent mode. And we don’t have that. Like, I literally walk across my back garden. It’s three steps. So creating that third space is really important. But the problem is… Is we always feel that there’s so much to do and we need to get on with it and if we don’t get it done, yada, yada, yada.
So we go, I can’t take 25 minutes off. I can’t go to the toilet because then I’m not going to get it all done. And I think the bigger question we have to ask ourselves is why are we trying to get it all done so quickly in the first place?
Oh, that just makes me uncomfortable because that’s me. Cold out. I am looking forward to the third space.
I think that’s going to be. Confronting and I think, I don’t know about you, but I, I became quite good at giving myself what you call in the third space in, especially having had been through a big health experience where I knew that my body was screaming at me to rest, even if my mind was telling me to keep going.
So I became really good at [00:14:00] taking that space before the kids came home to like, just lie down on my bed, lie down, get some quiet, rejuvenate and then come back. But then I started filling that third space because I’ve been telling myself I didn’t have time to complete things. I’ve put something else in there, so I’ll be lying on my bed, feeling like I was resting, listening to a Hormozy podcast, making notes on my notes app.
Your brain buzzing. I’ve got a new to do list that I didn’t even have 20 minutes ago. So I, I’m looking forward to getting up to that. I really enjoyed what you were saying as well, and I did read this in the book about. How your routine, which is really similar to mine in that you do block off a Monday and a Friday for doing that deep work.
And so you, then your Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays become, well, you tell, you tell us like, how do you schedule and why? Cause I found that really interesting. Yeah, so I’m the same as you in that I will fill the space and I think, you know, you really have to ask yourself the why you do that. And that’s probably something we can talk about a bit later because we’re all very driven and we need to [00:15:00] understand why we so driven.
But yeah, my ideal week is Mondays. I kind of ease into the week because usually by Monday I’ve forgotten who I even was last week, let alone, you know what I was doing. I’m very good at doing a to do list when I finished the day. So that when I come in on Monday, my brain isn’t quite good and I just literally go through the motions until I’m in the mode of working.
Mondays I try and keep for thinking, deep work, you know, for me that would be things like writing intros to newsletters, writing course materials, writing presentations, stuff that you need to really think about. And then Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday are a bit hell for leather. You know, it’s coaching call after coaching call mastermind podcast, you know, sometimes five or six hours of performance, I call it as Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then Friday again is kind of my wind down day for deeper work or sometimes even taking the day off.
I know, but then like you, because I’m driven and because I worry about money, even though maybe I [00:16:00] don’t have to as much as I used to, then I launched a mastermind and I put in two hours of coaching on a Monday morning at 10 o’clock and co working on a Friday. So I, and it’s been horrendous. It’s been amazing for my masterminders and I’ve loved it.
It’s drained the living being from my being. So why do we feel so uncomfortable with the white space that we’re intentionally planning for? Because I plan for freedom too. It’s the reason I do it. Like I know that some people just like shirk off structure and routine. They think it’s a thedum theft, don’t they?
But we do it to plan so that we can have freedom to do the things or to do nothing at all. But then… We get uncomfortable in that space where we’re not doing anything and we feel it like you with the mastermind calls. Why do we do that? What’s the solution?
I mean, look, I think it’s something I’m still working on.
I do think it’s, it’s something that comes from your parents. My parents were very much, you know, work hard and earn your relaxation. You know, it’s very Northern approach, isn’t it? [00:17:00] And. Idle hands and this, you know, laziness is all like bread and cheese. What you’re doing, you’re only boring people get bored.
And what you’re all, these are all northerners, right? I mean, I think you, you feel this, right? It’s not a response. I know, it’s like sitting around. Enjoying yourself is something that other people do. It’s something that rich people do. The privileged, yeah. The privileged do. So it doesn’t sit right with my little socialist working class mentality.
There’s, you know, you’ve always got to be grafting and hustling and it’s a weird one. I’m not sure I’m quite there yet. And also I think it comes from a feeling of not feeling enough. Mmm. You know, because I feel like perfectionism is a symptom of not enough ism, you know. So that you, if I just… If I really get this perfect, no one will realize that I don’t actually know what I’m talking about.
And I have to work harder than everybody else because I’m not as good as everybody else. That person can go on holiday for two weeks. That’s great. You go and relax. But I, that’s not for me. [00:18:00] I don’t do that. So I don’t know. I think it’s a lot about. Childhood and it’s something that you just have to break down over time, but I’m not great at relaxing.
And I will also say I really enjoy what I do. Not all of it, but I really get a lot of pleasure. I get a lot of, you know, as I said, dopamine, serotonin, all of that stuff out of it. My identity is very tied up in what I do, and I’m not going to apologize for that. You know, I’ve worked really hard to get, create a life that I, where the job that I actually enjoy.
So there’s nothing wrong with enjoying it.
Same. And I think, that, that can only be a good thing until it isn’t. And I think that, you know, if it doesn’t feel bad now, then let’s just accept that everything’s fine. You know, unless if my partner and my kids were coming to me to say like, mummy, you’re always working or can you, like that might trigger, okay, let me reassess.
But honestly, Sometimes it’s okay to do that too. But I really, I enjoy what I do. I enjoy it. I think that. Having those clear boundaries has helped me [00:19:00] for sure, but for me, and I relate a lot to everything you were saying about why we do fill that space, especially with the not feeling, I’m not good, I mean it all stems back to me not being good enough, or even if I say it isn’t good enough, that isn’t good enough, it really is me, I also feel that there must, that it’s like there’s someone chasing me as if I don’t finish it now, today, this minute, The world will combust, someone else will do it before me, someone else will take it away from me, like, where does that come from?
I said about someone chasing you because I feel like it’s almost someone’s breathing on the back of my neck or nipping at my heels. And it’s, it’s this again, that’s from the not feeling enough. Because there are a million people who do what we do. As I said, I feel, we’ve talked about the fact that we’re like the Wish version of Amy Paulsfield.
Why would anybody want us?
But you know, there are a million people doing what we do. It’s not going to go anywhere. As I say, my [00:20:00] big mantra in the book is the world will wait. I’ve been doing this now for 15 years, like good years and bad years. I don’t believe that. I think we’ve also taught that there’s something called balance.
Which I don’t believe in. I don’t believe there is such a thing as balance. I think you’ll have a day where you’re a great mom and then a day when you’re good at work and they’re probably not the same day. You’ll have months when it’s going really well and then months when it’s not going well. And that’s normal and natural.
But yeah, I think. Again, it’s the not enoughness because if we were confident, we would be like, yeah, it’s a bit quiet right now, but I know that I’m good at what I do and it will come back. If we were confident, we’d be like, yeah, I can take a day off because I always get it done. I always find a solution.
And if I don’t, who gives a shit? And the other thing is no one cares. I think in a way we’re trying to impress people as well.
Like it must come from an early childhood thing.
We’re trying to impress people. And no one cares. It’s not like I’m sitting here going, well, Mim hasn’t gone live on Instagram for a week.
Oh, you’d be waiting a long time. No, do [00:21:00] you know what I mean though? Kate hasn’t put a podcast out. No one gives a crap. No I’m chasing myself, but I feel like I’m chasing, I’m on, like I’ve hopped onto the ideas train and I’m chasing myself. It’s, it’s the craziest thing. And you know, there is a huge part of it that we’re creative, we’re ideas people.
We love it. Like we just love what we do. So I don’t think that will ever stop. And I don’t want the ideas to stop. It’s more the, urgency that I think I’d love to be able to be comfortable with hitting pause on.
Yeah. I mean, the thing is, if you did everything that you, you know, I say in the book that we all dream of having a clear week, 38 hours, all what I could achieve if I had one week where the dog wasn’t sick or there weren’t six tradies turning up.
Imagine who I would be if I could get that. It never happens. I’ll never get that 30 hours in a week. I will get it over two weeks. And I think the thing is, we’re We’re, we, we’re like, we’ve got a carrot on a stick and we’re [00:22:00] all so impatient. We live in this on demand culture now where we can binge TV shows and order stuff on Amazon and it’s here the next day.
We want it now. The truth is we don’t because if our inbox is ever empty, if we run out of ideas, what are we going to do? I haven’t got another option. This was my dream job. I’ve not got another dream job. This has to last. So we should, we should try and spread that butter out over more bread rather than trying to have some super moist, buttery bun.
Do you know what I mean? It’s a bad analogy, but I want to do this. I wanna do this until I’m an old Diddy. Mm-hmm. So therefore, I, I need to spread it out a little bit because, you know, we all know the story of the person who works until they’re 65 then retires and drops that a year later. I mean, I’ve, I so many of them, so many of them.
So we need to, you know, have a day off a week. That’s, you know, people say, oh, do you not? Do you wanna retire early? I’m like, no, it’s own. I wanna have, I wanna get a day off a week, and then I wanna move to three day week, and then [00:23:00] maybe a two day week. But I think two days. would be where I’d stick. I’d always want to do a couple of days because I think if you completely give up, unless you have another purpose, like you’re building an orphanage in Azerbaijan or something, I, I don’t know what I’d do with myself.
I enjoy being productive, you know, so it’s a, it’s an interesting, you would make a new list and fill that up with things. You would, that’s what the list will never end and nor should it. We’re very lucky that we’ve got ideas and, and. You know, you run your own business. I run my own business. It’s incredibly hard to come to your desk every day and be motivated and get on with it.
And I take a me, myself, and I approach to business. So on the good days I prepare for the bad days. So I’ll write the to do list for Monday. As I’ve said, you know, I allow, I allow myself to have performance days and non performance days. I know that I’m good in the morning and I’m not good in the afternoon.
You learn yourself, don’t you? Over the years, learn when to push [00:24:00] yourself. And when not to, because it sounds like both of us had a bit of a near burnout moment, health wise and mentally health wise, and I don’t want to go near that again because it was not fun. It just gives you an I mean the, the good the upside is that it just gives you a big slap in the face to reassess what is meaningful, and, and even now just coming back to it you know all of the reminders and one thing that you were saying that really got me thinking though and it’s something that again you spoke about in the book, and it was about.
Like you say, coming to your desk on a Monday and having what’s gonna give you the drive to keep going, especially when things are not going. Maybe they’re not going well, maybe you’re not enjoying it. Maybe those trolls have come out , like, and, and what I really liked was the way that you explained how passion can be a great starting point for something because there are lots of people who, listen to the podcast and who are in my.
Audience who are interested in starting something or have kind of dipped their toe into starting a business and, [00:25:00] or maybe they’ve been like at it for a couple of years, but something isn’t quite working for them in some way. And maybe the passion that they first had that first big why isn’t quite doing it for them now.
And I really liked the way that you talked about that. So tell us your bold view on, on how far you think passion will take you in a business.
Well, I think the analogy I like to draw is relationships, you know, you meet someone and it’s sex three times a day and roses and excitement and they cannot, you cannot maintain that.
You can’t maintain that. You get to the point where you’re arguing over who did the recycling. False advertising. Yeah, totally. So I do, you know, I love a bit of, I would rather say enthusiasm. I think passion is overused. It’s great to have a good idea and have an enthusiasm and you’ve got to do what’s at the very core of you and what really makes you tick so you can do it for the long term.
But you really have to accept that a lot of running a business is. Boring as bat poo, you know, you’ve got to enjoy the, the, the journey, not the destination. You’ve got to, and the thing that I made the mistake of for a long [00:26:00] time was mistaking stress for excitement. Like having that feeling in your chest of, Oh, Oh, Oh, and then, and this is so exciting.
No, you’re actually just stressed out of your mind, you know, launching and all of this and going to, I do believe that good things happen outside of your comfort zone, but I believe most good things happen in your comfort zone. Once in a while, you can But other than that, there’s nothing wrong with just having a nice day.
I was at an event the other day and they were talking about whenever they have a success, they open a bottle of champagne or they do this. And I was like, I don’t, I don’t do anything when I have a big success and I don’t do anything when I have a failure and I don’t do anything when I have a good day and I don’t do anything when I’ve had a bad day, I do not.
You know, purposely create ups and downs. You stay level. I try and stay level, you know, because if I celebrate, I’m all excited when something good happens. Then I’m going to crash and burn when something bad happens. So I just try and be tempered and measured. Sounds very dull, but you know what it is? I’m content.
Sounds very [00:27:00] peaceful. It’s peaceful. I’m content. No drama. No drama. One thing that you said then got my, because we’ve spoken about, you know, the crap in the coaching industry and, where you talk about stress and excitement feeling the same. See, these mindset coaches would tell you the reverse of that, that if you’re stressed about something or if you’re anxious, why don’t you tell yourself that that is the same feeling that excitement brings and you’re excited to see what could happen here.
And I think that that has a time and a place. But if you actually tell, it’s like that gaslighting yourself, if you’re telling yourself that you’re not stressed or that you’re, you know, you’re, you’re not nervous, you’re actually excited, you could be squashing very physical and real symptoms as well as mental ones.
And surely that’s a surefire path to burnout as well, whether it’s a business related thing or a parent related thing or anything in life.
I absolutely agree. I mean, it’s physically the release of cortisol and if you continually release cortisol into your system, it’s, it’s [00:28:00] dangerous. It’s not great. You know, we have a, it’s meant to be for adrenaline moments.
Like you’re about to be eaten by a mammoth. It’s not meant to be for sending an email. So if you’re getting that level of feeling every time, I don’t believe that you can talk yourself. Out of that, I think we should actually listen to our bodies and not try and to some degree master them with our minds.
Our minds are very powerful. We can push through a lot. But then what happens once you push through that when you’ve been in that anxious period for a long time is you flop, you know, when you’ve had to. Be brave. And like, maybe, you know, we’ve had some situations really in the family where I’ve had to be really strong and turn up every day and motivate everyone and be really good.
And then you get to the end of that and it’s past. And then you just completely crash because you’ve been living on adrenaline for ages. And you know, for me, I was on a bit of a wine coffee loop, you know, I needed wine to wind down in the evening and I needed coffee to start. And then by about three o’clock I was thinking about my wine again.
And it was, it’s no way to live because [00:29:00] To what end? No one is going to remember me working so hard. At the end of the book, I talk about whether you want to have a CV life or a eulogy life. You know, when I’m dead and I’m in, we’re having a funeral, you know, you’ve set me on a pyre, pushed me out into the ocean and you’re singing like Viking chants.
I don’t want you to be standing there. And yeah. Okay. 15, 000 people in a Facebook group, her lead magnet. was five pages long. That’s not what I want. No, I mean, I hope someone says she was a nice mom. She was a good friend, you know, and sometimes we lose track of that because as you said, in the cult and the coach culture, it’s ignore the stress.
It’s excitement. It’s up level. It’s higher a team. It’s go big or go home, go big or go home. I’ll go home. Thanks very much. And, and it’s this constant praying. I think the whole personal development industry is a bit screwed because what it preys on is the fact that you’re not good enough already. You need this course.
You [00:30:00] need this template. No, you can want it. You can enjoy it, but you don’t need any of it. And I feel like that, you know, I know you put some posts up about this as well. And I love it when we, when we do, because I feel like the whole thing is a bit skewed to just make us all feel crap and that we’re not performing to the right standard.
The biggest giveaway, I think, is when the thing that they’re telling you that you’re lacking is the thing that they’re teaching you how to get. With their three step plan. Easy to implement, three step plan. And I think that we can’t like, we constantly feel inadequate anyway. We don’t need other people to constantly tell us how even more so we are, for sure.
Oh, I was giggling when you were talking about the funeral and people saying, but she… She had a great Facebook up. It’s true, though, isn’t it? Cause I put a lot of energy into a perfectly crafted fillable outable PDF, but then do I put the same energy into like my health, my wellness? I do now, but I didn’t for a long time.
And, you [00:31:00] know, even the title of the book, it’s a bit of a piss take, really six figures in school hours. Because I mean, what does six figures mean that revenue is that. Gross profit is it? Net profit is before tax, after tax. It’s a nonsense. All these people saying earn six figures and then you realize they spent $97,000 on Facebook ads.
The smoke mirrors.
Yeah, the nonsense is crazy and it’s part of the reason why, I, I. I’ve stepped away from not only from coaching, but from sharing some things too, because I don’t want to contribute to the noise. I’m quite an open book and I know that you are too. But I, it’s so muddy right now in the online space.
It really is. I kind of chatted to a friend about this the other day thinking during that kind of COVID and those things, I thought there’d be a bit of a shakedown. But there really hasn’t been a fact. If anything, now, there are more than ever, there is too much noise and, and even more smoke, even much more so smoke and mirrors than there was before.
And, and I think it’s a reminder, I guess, just to stay in our lane and what works for, for us, [00:32:00] for sure. It’s important to me, it’s for everyone, I think too. You know, when I was talking to my husband about this the other day, like, when I’m on my, lying on my deathbed, am I really going to be so concerned that I didn’t fit into a certain size swimsuit in Fiji next month?
Probably not. Probably, that’ll probably be the last thing I think about. I’ll probably think about Fiji and how amazing it was as a family. But I don’t think I’ll even remember the bikini I was wearing. So, but it’s so hard. We get so caught up and it, you have to be really careful about what you consume, you know, who you surround yourself with.
And you might think, you know, you’ve got a good group of friends, but you’re surrounded, we used to just have to compete with the Joneses. I talk about this in the book as well. You know, the ubiquitous Joneses, but now we have to compete with Kim Kardashian because she’s on our screens all the time. We’re competing with people who are completely different lives to us, you know, everyone says you’ve got.
same amount of time in the day as Beyonce. Beyonce has a team of people. She’s a multimillionaire. She has a team of people to wipe her bottom and make her dinner. [00:33:00] So yes, you have literally the same time, but you don’t, every person she ad gives up. We’re just setting ourselves ridiculous standard. And the book, although the title might be a bit misleading is really about managing your ego and your expectations and your.
rapacious attitude to, to get everything done today. And when I say you, I don’t mean you, I mean one, because I’m saying, right, just to slow down and enjoy the journey. Because the biggest thing that I really occurred to me while writing the book was that family is for such a short period of time. You know, I don’t like the memes that say, Oh, you know, I saw shared on the other day and it was like, you’ll have a 90% of your time with your child by the time they reach 18.
I hate that one because it just made me feel awful. No, if you do it right. You’ll always have your family. Your son will be living in your garage when you’re 47, but family in that, in that busy lunchbox, you know, school uniform, cake day thing is short period. My son’s [00:34:00] 14 now. It’s very different. I’ve got all the time in the world to work now, and I don’t want to.
And as I say in the book, I would give anything to go back to doing Lego with him on the table. And I’ll never have that again. I will never have that again, but I can always make a new email funnel. I like when you were talking about the relationship with him is different now and the pockets of time that are precious to you could be having that one to one chat with him in the car like taking the kids to school and listening because mine are eight and ten listening to them just talking utter nonsense with each other and getting in with their conversation.
You know what? That was the highlight of my day until my husband started working for me and he’s taken over the drop offs. That’s a reminder to me to pick some of them back up again. Yeah,
because I did that. You know what I did? I’m big into outsourcing and insourcing. And I outsourced, I started to outsource everything.
I outsourced my cleaning. great. But then I walked [00:35:00] my dog and then I got a babysitter for my son and then something else. And then I realized I was starting to outsource the bits of my life that made my life my life. My dog in the morning is so important to me and I, and I don’t want to outsource that at the cost.
So I can do another hour of work, you know, like you’ve got to be careful about giving away the bits of your life. That on the surface look boring and time consuming, but actually give you pleasure in a way that’s a bit not easy to understand.
And the things that we’ve chosen, we’ve chosen to have kids, or we have, you’ve chosen to have a dog, you know, haven’t chosen to have a house that I need to clean necessarily, but I guess I have.
But I’ve chosen those things, and if I could choose between those kids and the funnels, clearly it would be their funnels, no I’m joking, it would be the kids.
It will be the kids! Some days it will be the funnels and that’s okay too, because you know, I will say that when everything’s crazy in the house and I just feel overwhelmed, there is so much pleasure and quiet in coming to [00:36:00] my office and doing an Excel spreadsheet.
You know, there is so much pleasure in that because I’m good at that. I can control that. And you can’t control your family or the dog. You’re the same person. You’re just talking to my inner self, my inner child here. Tell me when you’ve been doing the book tour. So, I mean, first of all, you said that the title was misleading.
I don’t think it is. Six figures in school hours to me. I take from that what I can for me. But I know that that really represents. you in such a big way with knowing you and everyone that you’ve been able to help too. But I know you’ve met a great collection of people doing the book tour, so fancy by the way, book tour.
What, what’s been the biggest feedback that you’ve really enjoyed hearing or that, that has surprised you along the way?
Well, I think The biggest thing for me personally was that I often feel like a bit of an outsider in this business world, you know, I’m not particularly, I’m a little bit scruffy and I talk with a Northern accent and I’m sarcastic and a bit dark, you know, like I’m not going to be blowing confetti on my Instagram, [00:37:00] you know, so I felt a bit of an outsider and like I didn’t fit in and I didn’t play well with others, but the book tour really showed me that I I’ve just been playing with the wrong others and that there are my people out there and that people I’ve got a great little community around me and I need to ask for help a bit more and I need to get out there a bit more and that networking is actually really enjoyable.
And, and I don’t need to isolate myself and feel like an outsider unless I choose to do that, which sorry, it’s probably not what you were asking for, but it’s been quite a personal development thing for me this year. So, it’s been, it’s been wonderful, you know, it’s, it’s changed me and I feel, I feel a little bit popular, Mim, you know, it’s been lovely, you know.
You see yourself, it’s so, it’s so interesting because from the way I see you is entirely different, like, You’re a legend. You have legendary status. Oh, whatever. In our online world. And no, it’s true though. And I [00:38:00] think that, I know what you, well, I relate in my way to what you’re saying about perhaps playing with the wrong people.
But you’ve mentioned before about, you know, The amount of content that we’re consuming from people and where are we getting it from and what messaging are we listening to? I think it can give us a bit of a warped sense of not only who we are, but how others see us and who else is out there and what else is out there.
I don’t know about you, but I, and I, and I find as I’m reading through your book, it’s really given me pause to stop and think there is a world out there bigger than just me and my business. And you really. You really start to think that that’s all there is. There’s my business, there’s your business, and then there’s other people’s businesses and you become all consumed.
And, and a lot, I love the online space. I’ve got, like you, a lot of great connections in the space too. A lot that I would happily just. You know, pushed off of whatever. Um,
but I think that there’s the years of doing this, I’ve just really got a great circle that I appreciate but at the [00:39:00] same time, there’s more to it than that. There’s more to it beyond the four walls of my house. too. And it’s taken, your book has given me a really good chance to take some stock and reflect on that.
So that’s, that’s lovely, you know, and it’s brought me into contact with people like you and you know, my, maybe you do get your circle and it becomes a little bit of a closed circle. But then you open it up and there is other amazing people out there, but we do live in a bubble. And sometimes I think, especially as women, we tend to get fixated on other people in the, in the industry.
Cause you know, we are, the society breeds women to compete with each other. Men love it when we compete with each other. Cause we’re arguing about stupid shit and they’re off doing men things, you know. Climbing the ladder. Yeah, exactly. And you can get very fixated on a few different people and think that they matter.
And I, the funny thing is, you know, everyone in my industry is talking about chat GTP and, you know, it’s going to ruin our industry and blah, blah, blah. You know, and then I go and speak to my son’s dad and he’s like, what’s that? I haven’t even heard of it. That’s the thing. That’s the thing. And, and, you know, I think [00:40:00] there’s a, like a.
It’s, what’s the word I’m looking for? I guess it’s just honestly a reality check. And when you realize that the things and the, and how you feel about yourself isn’t as important to the rest of the world as you think it might be, which is a good, it’s a good thing to get smacked in the face about, honestly, because let’s not be a dick.
Yeah. I mean, this is it, you know, you, you obviously you need a self of. a sense of self importance, feel that you matter, that you’re not just a speck on this board. But you know, the reality is, is if I disappeared tomorrow, people might be a bit sad for a few days, they’d want a few refunds for the membership.
But then that would be that, there’d be another Kate Toon trotting along in a few minutes. It’s good to have that sense of reality and not take yourself too seriously. And I think that’s something that I really try to do is to kind of have a bit of a laugh at myself, at the industry, poke fun at myself as well, because it is all ridiculous, really.
It is. I love the way that you do that. Cause it really is. And I think that, you know, there are so, otherwise we take for granted and we [00:41:00] take on like surface level, what we see on Instagram, for example, as who that person is and what they represent. I also won’t be blowing confetti. Don’t. See, I’m doing a photo shoot next week for, because I haven’t done one in four years, like when I look at the pictures that I use in business, I’ve got a short bob, like it just isn’t anymore.
So I was 10 kilos lighter on my last one. But you know, you’re not allowed to open any doors and close them for your launches, right? You’re not allowed to blow confetti. You’re not allowed to laugh at salad. Or hold balloons. Well it isn’t funny. So you can literally just sit on a chair and look at the camera.
That’s it. That’s all you’re allowed to do. You can point. I’ll let you point. Oh, just in case you need to point to an opt in. Exactly.
Hold a piece of white paper so you can put whatever you need to say. So you can write on it later. It’s What I’m not related to the topic we’re talking about at all, but I’ll ask you, like, you know, when, I mean, we put down the men in online business who stand next to the Lamborghinis and the Jags and the private jets that they’ve hired, you know, and we put the, but [00:42:00] are us women doing the same thing when we hire an Airbnb and have a fancy photo shoot because our office at home is a mess?
Like, I’ll, I’m not going to hire an Airbnb for mine, but I am going to be going to a studio because. Kate can see now that I’m in my, I’m like, angling the tidy corner of my office. On this side, it’s a bit of a show. So, it’s just… I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s a really funny one because I also saw someone on LinkedIn being really damning about the fact that a lot of women do photoshoots in their kitchen.
And I’ve done a photoshoot in my kitchen because it was the cleanest freaking room and it’s the nicest room. I like your kitchen. Yeah, it’s really, it’s white and it’s nice and whatever. I take the piss out of women in their white kitchens all the time. The reason I do it is because I share those photos and I love to take the piss out of myself.
So I think you need to have a healthy mix and most people’s in, you know, you want to have an Instagram where it’s you in a nice outfit, looking your best self. There’s nothing wrong with looking nice and really in reality, there’s nothing wrong with blowing confetti. It’s a laugh. It’s a day out, right?
But then equally, you want to have maybe your stories and other things full of you. [00:43:00] You know, I did a whole live the other day with a bit of tuna stuck to my boob, you know, and I think you need to have that balance. And I think the problem is when every picture is a glossy, your children are perfect, your kitchen, you’re laughing with your husband, all of that.
We know you don’t like your husband. You know, we know that you know that you’re crossed with him, all that. Then it doesn’t work. And I just think as long as it, as long as it feels right to you, I think we know, we know when we’re being idiots, do you know what I mean? I mean, I’m very extreme. I had a photo shoot done and we went, we snuck into Kohl’s and we took some photos in Kohl’s.
We got kicked out by the people in Kohl’s. So I’ve got a picture of me leaning against some, VB boxes, you know. That’s so funny. Anyone listening in the US, Kohl’s is like, I guess it’s like Walmart. Yeah. Anyway.
I don’t know. I mean, we all want to put a nice outfit on and look nice for our photo shoots. We don’t want to turn up with greasy hair and a monobrow, but it’s a fine [00:44:00] line, isn’t it? I think there is. I think there is. I like, I honestly find, I’m finding your book refreshing. I do feel it does. I mean, I am listening to the, I’m not reading the paper one.
I’m listening to the audible now. Oh, so you’ve got my actual voice. I’ve got your actual voice. I love listening to an audible book. I just feel like you are sat with me and you’re talking to me and he’s giving me how awful to spend eight hours with me. Do I sound Northern On the on the, you can’t say anything negative about your voice without also insulting mine.
Okay, but do I sound Northern on the audio book? ’cause I tried to sound harsh. No, you’ve got a little bit of telephone voice on Have I good? Tried no know, but I’m really enjoying it. I’m getting so much out of it and I can’t wait to get to that third space chapter and let you know what I think about that.
Thank you. Tell us though. Before we wrap up, what are the next plans for you?
Honestly, I’ve not got any and that’s important for me. So I’ve got my conference coming up in October and after that I’m taking a big fat break. I’m hoping to write my next book, which is more around the idea of… [00:45:00] You know, turning a service based business into a digital business, which you’ve done as well, you know.
But also I just want to have a bit of a break. It’s been a big year for me. This book, I wrote the book in six weeks, you know, it’s, I’ve done book tours. I’ve been here, there, everywhere. I want to just, I don’t know, on a lie on a sofa and drool. for a few months. Is that all right? That sounds blissful. I know, a bit of drool.
Don’t, don’t take a pen and paper with you when you’re like, I’ll not be listening to a podcast. I just want to, you know, but then again, I don’t want to have too much time with my own brain because that’s a bit dangerous. So we’ll see. We’ll see. I want to do, I want to have a bit of a break and keep on keeping on.
You know, just, just mooching along, having nice days. I don’t have any big dramatic plans. I don’t have any big goals or targets to hit. I just want to be able to keep living this life because
I like it. Oh, isn’t that perfect? You’re planning for that white space and grabbing it with both hands. Tell us, where can we get your book and where can we find out more about you?
Thank you [00:46:00] for that, for the little plug. It’s six figures in school hours. If you type it into Google, you’ll find it somewhere. Buy it from me, if you can, because if you buy it from someone else, I get like 37p. And then you can find more about me at katetune. com.
It’s been a pleasure to talk to you today, my northern friend.
Thank you so much, Kate.
Thank you, Mim.